Obama Communicates, Even Without Words

Just stumbled onto this infuriating item in Friday's NYTimes by Maureen Down pal and fellow Clinton hater Alessandra Stanley.
It's about Obama's The View appearance, and its title "Obama communicates, even without words" raised a red flag immediately.  In her first paragraph, Ms. Stanley opines:

"And if the fluttery response of the show five co-hosts is any harbinger, Mr. Obama will not have any trouble assuaging female voters if Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton drops out of the Democratic race for the White House."

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/29/us/pol itics/29watch.html?_r=1&scp=2&sq alessandra+stanley&st=nyt&oref slogin

There are so many things wrong with this sentence that I had to go take my blood pressure meds.  OK, great, what a relief, all those BigBoyz club bullies waving their penises around on Harry "we will make it happen" Reid's orders, telling Clinton to drop dead, yeah, Dodd, Leahy, Casey.  No problem.  Millions and millions of Clinton's women supporters will take one whiff of Obama's pheromones and be assuaged.
Yes, Alessandra, we're too dumb and fluttery, too swayed by our desire to rub against some handsome dude, to have firm opinions, principles, loyalties, resolve, or dignity.  We're too shallow and stupid to have carefully and thoughtfully evaluated his experience, judgment and integrity and found them all lacking.  Our candidate has so little to offer except for gender identity that the mere physical presence of the dreamboat Obama will make us forget even that in an instant.

Bitches: Lock and Load!

click on Stanley's name on the byline to contact her directly
letters@nytimes.com
nytnews@nytimes.com



Display:


Re: Obama Communicates, Even Without Words (2.00 / 1)

This diary is offensive, particularly the "waving penises" bit. It's clear that the last refuge of bitter Clinton supporters is to wildly throw around accusations of sexism.

This isn't pretty, and surely you have more dignity in losing than that.


by amiches on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 03:33:06 PM EST

No... (2.00 / 1)

What's really offensive to most of us here is the fact that so many these Obama fans swagger around with this machisimo attitude, always complaining about how Hillary and all of us who support her are "irrational, evil bitches!!!"... Then they think women will ultimately forget their nasty treatment of Hillary and swoon over The BarackStar. Sorry, but don't expect that to happen so long as you all keep bashing Hillary.


I agree with Hillary Clinton and sricki (!!), so I fully support Barack Obama for President! :-)
by atdleft on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 03:59:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No... (2.00 / 1)

I'd like to see an example of someone being called an irrational, evil bitch. Thanks in advance.


by amiches on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 04:20:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Happy to oblige (2.00 / 1)

Google: Hillary plus evil = 861,000 entries
             Hillary plus irrational = 256,000 entries
             Hillary pus bitch = 627,000 entries including the website
             http://www.hillarythebitch.com/

            And while we're at it,
             Hillary plus cunt = 429,000 entries
             including this:
             http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/19 msnbc-hosts-founder-of-an_n_87356.html

and one of my personal faves:
HILLARY THE TROUT SMELLING DYKE TRYING TO PLAY VICTIM AGAIN.
Someone spray some fabreeze in her boxer shorts. Lift up her balls and dump 3 cups of goldbond down there....
What gender Hillary? You are no lady that is for sure.
We rag on you because you are a nasty, ugly, old, smelly bitch.
So take your badge of honor, go to the pawn shop, get some money for it and buy a case of Summers Eve....
A woman who wants to be in charge? Bitch!

from the oh so charming website:
http://irregulartimes.com/index.php/arch ives/2006/03/13/hillary-clinton-bitch-wa tch


On to the Convention Floor!
by oh puhleeze on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 05:36:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Happy to oblige (none / 0)

If anyone is a bitch....it's you.....
Take your filtHy language and your posts from the likes of Huffington and get the hell out of here....you are discusting...by the way....what Gender are you or, don't you have one.
by Patriot2008 on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 05:59:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Say What? (2.00 / 1)

I'm a little confused by your comment.  Are you saying I shouldn't be pointing out the amount of venom circulating about one of the Democratic party's presidential candidates? Or what, exactly are you saying?


On to the Convention Floor!
by oh puhleeze on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 06:06:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Happy to oblige (none / 0)

I am so sorry,Oh Pleeze....I thought you were saying those horrible things...one word in particular jumped out at me and I saw red...
I now realize you were quoting things you had read and I apologize for jumping down your throat...please forgive...
by Patriot2008 on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 06:07:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Happy to oblige (2.00 / 1)

Thank you for responding, Patriot.  I read and value your comments, so I was surprised by your reply.  I understand the reaction, though.  Unfortunately, I don't think enough people here realize how ugly it is out there, which is why I put on a gas mask and pasted up the text.  It's troubling how neither the media nor our party leaders nor our high-minded opponent seems to be bothered by it in the slightest, and in fact all participate in it.


On to the Convention Floor!
by oh puhleeze on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 06:15:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Happy to oblige (none / 0)

This is just silly. I tried one single Google search -- Obama plus nigger -- and got 904,000. Which beats all your examples.

So what are you trying to prove?


by Petey on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 06:10:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Happy to oblige (2.00 / 1)

OK, you win.

Someone asked for an example, as if it had never happened that those words were used to describe Hillary.  So I offered some examples.


On to the Convention Floor!
by oh puhleeze on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 06:20:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Happy to oblige (none / 0)

I think a lot of the negativity comes from Republicans.  Sure there may be a few vocal Hillary haters and they do seem to come out of the woodwork in a competitive election like this, but I believe that a majority of Democrats (Obama supporters included) like Hillary.  I am an Obama supporter but I found it very difficult to choose between the two.  While she has her faults, Hillary and her husband have been champions of the Democratic Party and by and large, good leaders.  She will continue to lead even if she does not ultimately win this nomination.


by DreamsOfABlueNation on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 09:29:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Communicates, Even Without Words (2.00 / 2)

Yes, wildly, since there appears to have been no sign of such a phenomenon.


On to the Convention Floor!
by oh puhleeze on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 03:34:58 PM EST

Re: Obama Communicates, Even Without Words (2.00 / 1)

Actually, its fairly clear what Stanley is saying, says just as much as her as what she apparently thinks of other women.


by msharp on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 03:39:59 PM EST

Re: Obama Communicates, Even Without Words (2.00 / 3)

If for just one day I would like to be a token Bitch because I completely agree with everything you said in this diary. It's fantastic.

Highly Recommended!


by Fleaflicker on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 03:41:03 PM EST

Re: Obama Communicates, Even Without Words (2.00 / 2)

You don't have to be a woman to be a bitch.  You'll always be a member of my club, Flea.


On to the Convention Floor!
by oh puhleeze on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 03:44:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Communicates, Even Without Words (none / 0)

I think gender baiting is every bit as bad as race baiting. I see it a lot on this site. Some posters see sexism everywhere.

Whether you like it or not a lot of women do vote that way. That's all they're saying. Not that all do. That kind of thing also helped JFK get elected.

by Becky G on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 03:48:27 PM EST

Oh, so now... (2.00 / 1)

Women are so mindless that they base their votes on which guy looks hotter? Gimme a break. It IS the misogyny from all these Obama fans that's turning off so many of us. And no, an Obama "beefcake" poster won't fix that.


I agree with Hillary Clinton and sricki (!!), so I fully support Barack Obama for President! :-)
by atdleft on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 03:55:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh, so now... (none / 0)

Why does the partial become the whole.  Almost invariably in political wars a characteristic attributed to one of a particular identifying class is attributed to all in an effort to insult everyone.  If one were to look at a lot of social science literature, people tend to favor those who most resemble themselves.  I believe the key to it all is getting pass the obvious references of identity, race, gender and look at more substantive differences.

Some women are mindless some men are mindless, the women and men who have minds, and choose to exercise them have to take control.


by StrangeAnomaly on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 08:11:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Communicates, Even Without Words (2.00 / 1)

Do you?


On to the Convention Floor!
by oh puhleeze on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 04:00:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Communicates, Even Without Words (none / 0)

Well, do you?


On to the Convention Floor!
by oh puhleeze on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 05:18:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well, the first step... (2.00 / 1)

in assuaging any voter -- male or female -- is to get past personal animosity -- which yesterday's View showed was entirely possible among at least some in Hillary's most loyal demographic. That was the point.

As you well know, Dowd et al find much to recommend in Barack other than his smouldering sexuality. There's an assumption among many of his supporters that the majority of Americans will come to appreciate his considerable gifts if they allow themselves to view him unfiltered (sans sleezeball attacks, hyperbolic generalizations about his experience, or, yes, his incorrect gender).

But I've long maintained that some of the old culture warriors -- those whose identities are wrapped up in the battling, the bickering, and the demonization of adversaries -- will probably always feel left out of the Obama coalition, for he genuinely asks us to work together to forge a new kind of politics and cultural public sphere that's not particularly inviting to some. I suspect from the tone of your diary that you are one of those who will never allow yourself to see the transformative potential of this man, because you will always find some politically incorrect word or gesture to raise your blood pressure.


by Petey on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 04:16:02 PM EST

Re: Well, the first step... (2.00 / 1)

Well, let's see.  First, I don't think voters need "assuaging."  Voters have legitimate heartfelt positions on the issues and on candidates' qualifications.  If their candidate does not prevail, they will make their own private complex decisions about how to vote.

Second, if any "assuaging" can be done, it will certainly not be based on some stereotyped shallow assumption that you assuage women by appealing to them sexually.

Third, my identity is hardly wrapped up in the battling "the old culture" wars, no more than my identity is wrapped up in battling povery and injustice.  I voice my opinions on this site because I feel it's a somewhat underepresented position.

Fourth, I don't feel left out by the "Obama coalition," I choose not to participate in it.    From what I've seen his "new kind of politics" is nothing more than a slick and cynical version of the old kind of politics  His gender is hardly the problem.  It's his campaign's reprehensible fostering and benefiting from the stereotyping of Clinton as a evil desperate calculating bitch.

Finally, don't bother to belittle the feelings of many of us by relegating our issues to the sneery bin of political correctness.  Standing up against all forms of oppression in the progressive community has hardly been the politically powerful position in this country.


On to the Convention Floor!
by oh puhleeze on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 04:45:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well, the first step... (none / 0)

Two of the hosts on The View said they were persuaded by his speech on race and now support him.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 04:55:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well, the first step... (none / 0)

Well... it was only a matter of time before the o-word was unveiled. Oppression? Are you seriously portraying a lighthearted remark about one sign that some members from Hillary's famed demographic might be assuaged... as oppression?

I know you don't believe me, but as a lifelong liberal activist and feminist sympathizer, when I'm being critical of your kind of hyperbole I'm actually trying to help you see the way it turns off many of us potential allies. Sure, I'd love to see Barack win, but my greatest preference would be to see this contest play out as a genuine, fair debate over ideas, vision, capabilities, and character. The more Hillary (and Steinem-esque supporters) shift the focus to perceived oppressions, the more this race is doomed to be mired in prejudices.

(Yes, we could discuss your frustrations with the Obama camp, but that's another issue. I'm merely giving feedback about your attempts to rally us in opposition to the great oppressions of Barbara Walters and Maureen Dowd.)


by Petey on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 05:07:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Communicates, Even Without Words (none / 0)

I just let here have it!  Felt sooooo good.


It does not take many words to tell the truth Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
by Gabriele Droz on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 04:19:53 PM EST

Re: Obama Communicates, Even Without Words (2.00 / 1)

In all due respect -- and in the vein of my above post -- it's this "felt soooooo good" retributive attitude that is yielding such alienation from those of us -- women and men alike of all stripes -- who are hoping to build a new kind of post-culture-wars public sphere.

Reminds me of Dylan's "Ballad of the Thin Man" -- "Something is happening here, but you don't know what it is, do you Mr Jones?" (Mr Jones being all the old culture warriors, from both the left and the right, who haven't yet figured out that the part of the train they're bunked out in has been unhitched for awhile and is moving nowhere.

If you can stand a little inspiration, read this analysis of Alice Walker's endorsement of Barack:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/3/29/ 124042/507/409/486744


by Petey on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 04:32:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Communicates, Even Without Words (none / 0)

Again, inspire yourself.  Walker's commentary is bizarre and totally filled with racial politics, essentially comparing Hillary to a white plantation owner.


by MidwestTracker on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 06:22:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Communicates, Even Without Words (2.00 / 1)

Thanks for the support.


On to the Convention Floor!
by oh puhleeze on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 04:59:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Communicates, Even Without Words (none / 0)

Obama has had a lot of practice charming white liberals of both sexes: he was raised by his white liberal grandparents from age 10-college.

See quote from DREAMS OF MY FATHER, and good commentary at  http://isteve.blogspot.com/2008/03/obama -throws-his-own-living-grannie.html
In this entry Steve Sailer quotes Obama's white grandfather displaying some shocking liberal guilt (and dysfunctionally dumping it on a 17-year-old Obama). Obama was raised by these white grandparents from age 10-college.


by 1950democrat on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 05:18:40 PM EST

1950 sounds about right (none / 0)

is this what progressives sound like when they speak among themselves. Cause it sounds like PJB on a good day,


Ida B. refused to stand in the back during women's suffrage parades
by Ida B on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 06:14:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Communicates, Even Without Words (2.00 / 2)

I am a man and I have a close group of male friends who are all totally devoted to Hillary winning:  their names are Brad, Gabe, Jay, Chris, and I'm Greg.  And in the Ohio primary I was able to convince Mike and Brian to vote for Hillary.  So it's not just women who are angry.  It's also the fair-minded men who can inspire themselves and can find hope in their own lives who don't need a president to make them feel better about themselves.


by MidwestTracker on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 06:20:24 PM EST

Re: Obama Communicates, Even Without Words (2.00 / 1)

Thanks for that, Greg.  I know that's true, and it's important and appreciated.  And not because you're supporting a woman, but because you're fair and are angered by injustice wherever you see it.


On to the Convention Floor!
by oh puhleeze on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 06:35:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Communicates, Even Without Words (2.00 / 1)

You are welcome.  I'm a prosecutor, and I see the ugly side of the world every day.  I prosecute murderers, rapists, and the worst child abusers.  So I was particulary offended by some of Barack's non-votes in Illinois.  I'm just amazed by how out of touch with reality many of Barack's supporters are.  I'm just not sure as to what inspires people about barack.  It's not like he has to work hard for anything in politics.  If you want someone to inspire you look to Hillary.  This woman has stood up against it seems like the world for the last few months.  That takes courage.  Do I find her inspirational?  No.  Do I admire her?  Yes.


by MidwestTracker on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 06:41:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

a lack of curiosity here (none / 0)

Immediately after stating -- boldly and definitively -- that Barack's supporters are "out of touch with reality," you admit that you have no idea what inspires people about the man.

I've never been to France, but anyone who likes to travel there is deluded and stupid.

On another note: What in tarnation are you suggesting when you say your prosecutions of murderers and the like causes you to be particularly offended by Barack's state senate voting strategy (which has been repeatedly shown to be in accord with state norms)? Can I assume you believe his efforts to reform the death penalty have made society less safe?


by Petey on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 06:59:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: a lack of curiosity here (2.00 / 1)

I believe it was his non-vote keeping confidential the names of sexual abuse victims.  And please don't tell me that was strategy.   You are right, I have no idea what inspires you.  Why don't you tell me so I can be better informed?


by MidwestTracker on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 07:47:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: a lack of curiosity here (none / 0)

[Whoops. Meant to post this here. Sorry for doubling up.]

I guess I walked into that one. Thanks for expressing curiosity. Frankly, I have some doubt about it, however, because so very very much has already been said and written by so many many Obama supporters. So, one is left to conclude that if anyone out there still has no idea what inspires us, they probably never will.

Note that this not the same as agreeing with us. I don't agree with Hillary supporters' feelings that her brand of "fighting" and "working hard" with all her years of experience is the best way to pass a progressive agenda, but I certainly understand the rationale behind such feelings.

But if you really want to go to the trouble, you can always see more of what inspires this Barack supporter through this diary:

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/3/27/2051 27/062

or this one:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3 /14/113625/567/423/476552

or this one:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3 /20/12720/0070/272/480763


by Petey on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 08:15:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: a lack of curiosity here (none / 0)

You are the grey poupon guy!  You are right that I prefer the fighter and the hard worker type of candidate.  But I have not found Barack to be a uniter as you would say.  I do think those are just words on his part.  Bush said compassionate conservative so many times that people started to believe it even though, I and probably you as well, knew he had done nothing compassionate in his political life.  So when Barack keeps saying that he can "unite us," I'm a bit skeptical. As for being not in touch with reality, what I'm saying is that we are in a divided country, and to think the Barack is going to sweep in and "unite" us is naive, especially since I have not seem him do one thing that took any political courage.


by MidwestTracker on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 08:33:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: a lack of curiosity here (none / 0)

At one point, it was looking possible that Barack would change the electoral map big-time, and, yes, sweep in a new mandate. (And this was part of the great anger with The Clintons -- who we perceived to be stopping him with foul play.) While I do think this sweep is still possible, it's not entirely necessary -- if you believe he has staying power, as I do. JFK is a flawed comparison (and had a flawed presidency -- incomplete obviously), but, remember, he barely squeaked into office and still was able to use his skills to establish himself as a rather unifying and visionary leader.

Fine people can certainly disagree, but I really don't think all of us Obama supporters -- from all walks of life, senators, gifted commentators, poets, artists, etc etc -- I don't think it's sensible to portray us all as deluded.


by Petey on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 08:56:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: a lack of curiosity here (none / 0)

MidwestTracker, here is the story regarding the privacy provision on the sexual abuse bill.  There's a possibility that I may be wrong, but it appears that you either misread or were misinformed about Obama's reason for not voting for the provision in question.  http://mediamatters.org/items/2008012300 09

It appears that Obama was the one who sponsored the legislation and then rejected it when it was discovered that there were legally questionable aspects of the bill that he sponsored.

By the way it wasn't a "strategy" it was a question of constitutionality.   Read the link, it's informative.


by StrangeAnomaly on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 08:25:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: a lack of curiosity here (none / 0)

Thanks for that link.  It was informative.  It's good to have an honest if spirited debate.


by MidwestTracker on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 08:39:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: a lack of curiosity here (none / 0)

Agreed...unfortunately such debates are too rare these days.


by StrangeAnomaly on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 08:55:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Communicates, Even Without Words (none / 0)

I guess I walked into that one. Thanks for expressing curiosity. Frankly, I have some doubt about it, however, because so very very much has already been said and written by so many many Obama supporters. So, one is left to conclude that if anyone out there still has no idea what inspires us, they probably never will.

Note that this not the same as agreeing with us. I don't agree with Hillary supporters' feelings that her brand of "fighting" and "working hard" with all her years of experience is the best way to pass a progressive agenda, but I certainly understand the rationale behind such feelings.

But if you really want to go to the trouble, you can always see more of what inspires this Barack supporter through this diary:

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/3/27/2051 27/062

or this one:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3 /14/113625/567/423/476552

or this one:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3 /20/12720/0070/272/480763


by Petey on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 08:10:37 PM EST


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